Brian Peskin Contradicted..opinions sought.

[deliria]

Hi,
Like many of you here i was i was very interested in what Brian Peskin had to say about cancer.
I have recently been treated for thyroid cancer.
I started following Brian Peskin's advice & reduced carbohydrates in my diet added more protein & became strictly organic.
I also stated taking 2 teaspoons of organic, unrefined Safflower oil to 1 teaspoon of organic, unrefined Flax oil. I started this about a month ago, with no apparent improvement in skin etc. if anything my immunity seems a little suppressed, but that could be due to my recent radiation treatment for cancer.

I have come across the following article which pretty much seems to discount most of what Brian Peskin claims.
This has me very concerned as i certainly don't want to increase my chances of cancer returning, I was hoping Peskin's method would help to stop that.

This is the link to the article
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml

But i have copied & pasted it below.

I have highlighted some of the more interesting claims. This article claims that the the hydrogenation of the oils makes them less like likely to cause cancer, i am sure Peskin claims it is the hydrogenation that makes the oils more toxic & that is why he recommends organic, unrefined oils.

It is so hard to know who to believe, you want to make the right decision when it comes to your health & avoiding a recurrence of something like cancer, but who is to say that Peskin is right & Peat is wrong, they have completely opposing views when it comes to EFAs.
I am now wondering whether to take my oils tonight.

Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic


GLOSSARY:



Immunodeficiency (weakness of the immune system) can take many forms. AIDS, for example, refers to an immunodeficiency which is "acquired," rather than "inborn." Radiation and vegetable oils can cause "acquired immunodeficiency." Unsaturated oils, especially polyunsaturates, weaken the immune system's function in ways that are similar to the damage caused by radiation, hormone imbalance, cancer, aging, or viral infections. The media discuss sexually transmitted and drug-induced immunodeficiency, but it isn't yet considered polite to discuss vegetable oil-induced immunodeficiency.


Unsaturated oils: When an oil is saturated, that means that the molecule has all the hydrogen atoms it can hold. Unsaturation means that some hydrogen atoms have been removed, and this opens the structure of the molecule in a way that makes it susceptible to attack by free radicals.



Free radicals are reactive molecular fragments that occur even in healthy cells, and can damage the cell. When unsaturated oils are exposed to free radicals they can create chain reactions of free radicals that spread the damage in the cell, and contribute to the cell's aging.



Rancidity of oils occurs when they are exposed to oxygen, in the body just as in the bottle. Harmful free radicals are formed, and oxygen is used up.



Essential fatty acids (EFA) are, according to the textbooks, linoleic acid and linolenic acid, and they are supposed to have the status of "vitamins," which must be taken in the diet to make life possible. However, we are able to synthesize our own unsaturated fats when we don't eat the "EFA," so they are not "essential." The term thus appears to be a misnomer. [M. E. Hanke, "Biochemistry," Encycl. Brit. Book of the Year, 1948.]



Q: You say vegetable oils are hazardous to your health. What vegetable oils are you talking about?



Mainly, I'm referring to soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, canola, sesame oil, sunflower seed oil, palm oil, and any others that are labeled as "unsaturated" or "polyunsaturated." Almond oil, which is used in many cosmetics, is very unsaturated.



Chemically, the material that makes these oils very toxic is the polyunsaturated fat itself. These unsaturated oils are found in very high concentrations in many seeds, and in the fats of animals that have eaten a diet containing them. The fresh oils, whether cold pressed or consumed as part of the living plant material, are intrinsically toxic, and it is not any special industrial treatment that makes them toxic. Since these oils occur in other parts of plants at lower concentration, and in the animals which eat the plants, it is impossible to eat a diet which lacks them, unless special foods are prepared in the laboratory.



These toxic oils are sometimes called the "essential fatty acids" or "vitamin F," but this concept of the oils as essential nutrients was clearly disproved over 50 years ago.



Linoleic and linolenic acids, the "essential fatty acids," and other polyunsaturated fatty acids, which are now fed to pigs to fatten them, in the form of corn and soy beans, cause the animals' fat to be chemically equivalent to vegetable oil. In the late 1940s, chemical toxins were used to suppress the thyroid function of pigs, to make them get fatter while consuming less food. When that was found to be carcinogenic, it was then found that corn and soy beans had the same antithyroid effect, causing the animals to be fattened at low cost. The animals' fat becomes chemically similar to the fats in their food, causing it to be equally toxic, and equally fattening.



These oils are derived from seeds, but their abundance in some meat has led to a lot of confusion about "animal fats." Many researchers still refer to lard as a "saturated fat," but this is simply incorrect when pigs are fed soybeans and corn.



Q: How are these oils hazardous to your health?



Ultimately, all systems of the body are harmed by an excess of these oils. There are two reasons for this. One is that the plants produce the oils for protection, not only to store energy for the germination of the seed. To defend the seeds from the animals that would eat them, the oils block the digestive enzymes in the animals' stomachs. Digestion is one of our most basic functions, and evolution has built many other systems by using variations of that system; as a result, all of these systems are damaged by the substances which damage the digestive system.



The other reason is that the seeds are designed to germinate in early spring, so their energy stores must be accessible when the temperatures are cool, and they normally don't have to remain viable through the hot summer months. Unsaturated oils are liquid when they are cold, and this is necessary for any organism that lives at low temperatures. For example, fish in cold water would be stiff if they contained saturated fats. These oils easily get rancid (spontaneously oxidizing) when they are warm and exposed to oxygen. Seeds contain a small amount of vitamin E to delay rancidity. When the oils are stored in our tissues, they are much warmer, and more directly exposed to oxygen, than they would be in the seeds, and so their tendency to oxidize is very great. These oxidative processes can damage enzymes and other parts of cells, and especially their ability to produce energy.



The enzymes which break down proteins are inhibited by unsaturated fats, and these enzymes are needed not only for digestion, but also for production of thyroid hormones, clot removal, immunity, and the general adaptability of cells. The risks of abnormal blood clotting, inflammation, immune deficiency, shock, aging, obesity, and cancer are increased. Thyroid and progesterone are decreased. Since the unsaturated oils block protein digestion in the stomach, we can be malnourished even while "eating well."



Plants produce many protective substances to repel or injure insects and other animals that eat them. They produce their own pesticides. The oils in seeds have this function. On top of this natural toxicity, the plants are sprayed with industrial pesticides, which can concentrate in the seed oils.



It isn't the quantity of these polyunsaturated oils which governs the harm they do, but the relationship between them and the saturated fats. Obesity, free radical production, the formation of age pigment, blood clotting, inflammation, immunity, and energy production are all responsive to the ratio of unsaturated fats to saturated fats, and the higher this ratio is, the greater the probability of harm there is.



There are interesting interactions between these oils and estrogen. For example, puberty occurs at an earlier age if estrogen is high, or if these oils are more abundant in the diet. This is probably a factor in the development of cancer.



All systems of the body are harmed by an excess of these oils. There are three main kinds of damage: one, hormonal imbalances, two, damage to the immune system, and three, oxidative damage.



Q: How do they cause hormonal imbalances?



There are many changes in hormones caused by unsaturated fats. Their best understood effect is their interference with the function of the thyroid gland. Unsaturated oils block thyroid hormone secretion, its movement in the circulatory system, and the response of tissues to the hormone. When the thyroid hormone is deficient, the body is generally exposed to increased levels of estrogen. The thyroid hormone is essential for making the "protective hormones" progesterone and pregnenolone, so these hormones are lowered when anything interferes with the function of the thyroid. The thyroid hormone is required for using and eliminating cholesterol, so cholesterol is likely to be raised by anything which blocks the thyroid function.



Q: How do they damage the immune system?



Vegetable oil is recognized as a drug for knocking out the immune system. Vegetable oil emulsions were used to nourish cancer patients, but it was discovered that the unsaturated oils were suppressing their immune systems. The same products, in which vegetable oil is emulsified with water for intravenous injection, are now marketed specifically for the purpose of suppressing immunity in patients who have had organ transplants. Using the oils in foods has the same harmful effect on the immune system. [E. A. Mascioli, et al.,Lipids 22(6) 421, 1987.] Unsaturated fats directly kill white blood cells. [C. J. Meade and J. Martin, Adv. Lipid Res., 127, 1978.]



Q: How do they cause oxidative damage?



Unsaturated oils get rancid when exposed to air; that is called oxidation, and it is the same process that occurs when oil paint "dries." Free radicals are produced in the process.


This process is accelerated at higher temperatures. The free radicals produced in this process react with parts of cells, such as molecules of DNA and protein and may become attached to those molecules, causing abnormalities of structure and function.



Q: What if I eat only organically grown vegetable oils?



Even without the addition of agricultural chemicals, an excess of unsaturated vegetable oils damages the human body. Cancer can't occur, unless there are unsaturated oils in the diet. [C. Ip, et al., Cancer Res. 45, 1985.] Alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver cannot occur unless there are unsaturated oils in the diet. [Nanji and French, Life Sciences. 44, 1989.] Heart disease can be produced by unsaturated oils, and prevented by adding saturated oils to the diet. [J. K. G. Kramer, et al., Lipids 17, 372, 1983.]



Q. What oils are safe?



Coconut and olive oil are the only vegetable oils that are really safe, but butter and lamb fat, which are highly saturated, are generally very safe (except when the animals have been poisoned). Coconut oil is unique in its ability to prevent weight-gain or cure obesity, by stimulating metabolism. It is quickly metabolized, and functions in some ways as an antioxidant. Olive oil, though it is somewhat fattening, is less fattening than corn or soy oil, and contains an


antioxidant which makes it protective against heart disease and cancer.



Israel had the world's highest incidence of breast cancer when they allowed the insecticide lindane to be used in dairies, and the cancer rate decreased immediately after the government prohibited its use. The United States has fairly good laws to control the use of cancer-causing agents in the food supply, but they are not vigorously enforced. Certain cancers are several times more common among corn farmers than among other farmers, presumably because corn "requires" the use of more pesticides. This probably makes corn oil's toxicity greater than it would be otherwise, but even the pure, organically grown material is toxic, because of its intrinsic unsaturation.



In the United States, lard is toxic because the pigs are fed large quantities of corn and soy beans. Besides the intrinsic toxicity of the seed oils, they are contaminated with agricultural chemicals. Corn farmers have a very high incidence of cancer, presumably because of the pesticides they use on their crop.



Q: But aren't "tropical oils" bad for us?



In general, tropical oils are much more healthful than oils produced in a cold climate. This is because tropical plants live at a temperature that is close to our natural body temperature. Tropical oils are stable at high temperatures. When we eat tropical oils, they don't get rancid in our tissues as the cold-climate seed oils, such as corn oil, safflower oil and soy oil, do. [R.B. Wolf, J. Am. Oil Chem. Soc. 59, 230, 1982; R. Wolfe, Chem 121, Univ. of Oregon, 1986.]



When added to a balanced diet, coconut oil slightly lowers the cholesterol level, which is exactly what is expected when a dietary change raises thyroid function. This same increase in thyroid function and metabolic rate explains why people and animals that regularly eat coconut oil are lean, and remarkably free of heart disease and cancer.



Although I don't recommend "palm oil" as a food, because I think it is less stable than coconut oil, some studies show that it contains valuable nutrients. For example, it contains antioxidants similar to vitamin E, which lowers both LDL cholesterol and a platelet clotting factor. Coconut oil and other tropical oils also contain some hormones that are related to pregnenolone or progesterone.



Q: Isn't coconut oil fattening?



Coconut oil is the least fattening of all the oils. Pig farmers tried to use it to fatten their animals, but when it was added to the animal feed, coconut oil made the pigs lean [See Encycl. Brit. Book of the Year, 1946].



Q: What about olive oil? Isn't it more fattening than other vegetable oils?



In this case, as with coconut oil, "fattening" has more to do with your ability to burn calories than with the caloric value of the oil. Olive oil has a few more calories per quart than corn or soy oil, but since it doesn't damage our ability to burn calories as much as the unsaturated oils do, it is less fattening. Extra virgin olive oil is the best grade, and contains an antioxidant that protects against cancer and heart disease. [1994, Curr. Conts.]



Q: Is "light" olive oil okay?



No. Now and then someone learns how to make a profit from waste material. "Knotty pine" boards were changed from a discarded material to a valued decorative material by a little marketing skill. Light olive oil is a low grade material which sometimes has a rancid smell and probably shouldn't be used as food.



Q: Is margarine okay?



There are several problems with margarine. The manufacturing process introduces some toxins, including a unique type of fat which has been associated with heart disease. [Sci. News, 1974; 1991.] There are likely to be dyes and preservatives added to margarine. And newer products contain new chemicals that haven't been in use long enough to know whether they are safe.



[B]However, the basic hardening process, hydrogenation of the oils, has been found to make the oils less likely to cause cancer. If I had to choose between eating ordinary corn oil or corn oil that was 100% saturated, to make a hard margarine, I would choose the hard margarine, because it resists oxidation, isn't suppressive to the thyroid gland, and doesn't cause cancer.



Q: What about butter?



Butter contains natural vitamin A and D and some beneficial natural hormones. It is less fattening than the unsaturated oils. There is much less cholesterol in an ounce of butter than in a lean chicken breast [about 1/5 as much cholesterol in fat as in lean meat on a calorie basis, according to R. Reiser of Texas A & M Univ., 1979.].



Q: Are fish oils good for you?



Some of the unsaturated fats in fish are definitely less toxic than those in corn oil or soy oil, but that doesn't mean they are safe. Fifty years ago, it was found that a large amount of cod liver oil in dogs' diet increased their death rate from cancer by 20 times, from the usual 5% to 100%. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of toxic lipid peroxides, and has been observed to reduce a man's sperm count to zero. [H. Sinclair, Prog. Lipid Res. 25, 667, 1989.]



Q: What about lard?



In this country, lard is toxic beause the pigs are fed large quantities of corn and soy beans. Besides the natural toxicity of the seed oils, the oils are contaminated with agricultural chemicals. Corn farmers have a very high incidence of cancer, presumably because corn "requires" the use of more pesticides. This probably makes corn oil's toxicity greater than it would be otherwise. but even the pure, organically grown material is toxic, because of its unsaturation.


Women with breast cancer have very high levels of agricultural pesticides in their breasts [See Science News, 1992, 1994].



Israel had the world's highest incidence of breast cancer when they allowed the insecticide lindane to be used in dairies, and the cancer rate decreased immediately after the government prohibited its use. The United States has fairly good laws to control the use of cancer-causing agents in the food supply, but they are not vigorously enforced. [World Incid. of Cancer, 1992]



Q: I have no control over oils when eating out. What can I do to offset the harmful effects of polyunsaturated oils?



A small amount of these oils won't kill you. It is the proportion of them in your diet that matters. A little extra vitamin E (such as 100 units per day) will take care of an occasional American restaurant meal. Based on animal studies, it would take a teaspoonful per day of corn or soy oil added to a fat-free diet to significantly increase our risk of cancer. Unfortunately, it is impossible to devise a fat-free diet outside of a laboratory. Vegetables, grains, nuts, fish and meats all naturally contain large amounts of these oils, and the extra oil used in cooking becomes a more serious problem.



Q Why are the unsaturated oils so popular if they are dangerous?



It's a whole system of promotion, advertising, and profitability.



50 years ago, paints and varnishes were made of soy oil, safflower oil, and linseed (flax seed) oil. Then chemists learned how to make paint from petroleum, which was much cheaper. As a result, the huge seed oil industry found its crop increasingly hard to sell. Around the same time, farmers were experimenting with poisons to make their pigs get fatter with less food, and they discovered that corn and soy beans served the purpose, in a legal way. The crops that had been grown for the paint industry came to be used for animal food. Then these foods that made animals get fat cheaply came to be promoted as foods for humans, but they had to direct attention away from the fact that they are very fattening. The "cholesterol" focus was just one of the marketing tools used by the oil industry. Unfortunately it is the one that has lasted the longest, even after the unsaturated oils were proven to cause heart disease as well as cancer. [Study at L.A. Veterans Hospital, 1971.]



I use some of these oils (walnut oil is very nice, but safflower oil is cheaper) for oil painting, but I am careful to wash my hands thoroughly after I touch them, because they can be absorbed through the skin.




SUMMARY


Unsaturated fats cause aging, clotting, inflammation, cancer, and weight gain.



Avoid foods which contain the polyunsaturated oils, such as corn, soy, safflower, flax, cottonseed, canola, peanut, and sesame oil.



Mayonnaise, pastries, even candies may contain these oils; check the labels for ingredients.



Pork is now fed corn and soy beans, so lard is usually as toxic as those oils; use only lean pork.



Fish oils are usually highly unsaturated; "dry" types of fish, and shellfish, used once or twice a week, are good. Avoid cod liver oil.



Use vitamin E.



Use coconut oil, butter, and olive oil.



Unsaturated fats intensify estrogen's harmful effects.


[B]Essential Fatty Acids ("EFA"): A Technical Point



Those fatty acids, such as linoleic acid and linolenic acid, which are found in linseed oil, soy oil, walnut oil, almond oil, corn oil, etc., are essential for the spontaneous development of cancer, and also appear to be decisive factors in the development of age pigment, alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver, diabetes, obesity, stress-induced immunodeficiency, some aspects of the shock reaction, epilepsy, brain swelling, congenital retardation, hardening of the arteries, cataracts, and other degenerative conditions. They are possibly the most important toxin for animals.



The suppression of an enzyme system is characteristic of toxins. The "EFA" powerfully, almost absolutely, inhibit the enzyme systems--desaturases and elongases--which make our native unsaturated fatty acids.



After weaning, these native fats gradually disappear from the tissues and are replaced by the EFA and their derivatives. The age-related decline in our ability to use oxygen and to produce energy corresponds closely to the substitution of linoleic acid for the endogenous fats, in cardiolipin, which regulates the crucial respiratory enzyme, cytochrome oxidase.



Although the fish oils are less effective inhibitors of the enzymes, they are generally similar to the seed oils in their ability to promote cancer, age-pigment formation, free radical damage, etc. Their only special nutritional value seems to be their vitamin A and vitamin D content. Since vitamin A is important in the development of the eye, it is interesting that claims are being made for the essentiality of some of the fatty acid components of fish oil, in relation to the development of the eye.



The polyunsaturated oils from seeds are recommended for use in paints and varnishes, but skin contact with these substances should be avoided.

[rosetapper23]

From my reading, these findings dovetail with Peskin's own research. I don't see where it disagrees with Peskin's basic points. Peskin recommends coconut oil in all of his writings and speeches, and he doesn't recommend any of the oils that this writer also doesn't think are safe.

Where do you see a contradiction? Each and every point made by this author is corroborated in Peskin's own writings.

[deliria]

Well...i agree that Peskin has no problem with coconut oil...

however, Peskin does recommend organic, unrefined safflower oil, flax oil, sunflower oil etc.

Peat claims the following when asked:


Q: You say vegetable oils are hazardous to your health. What vegetable oils are you talking about?



Mainly, I'm referring to soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, canola, sesame oil, sunflower seed oil, palm oil, and any others that are labeled as "unsaturated" or "polyunsaturated." Almond oil, which is used in many cosmetics, is very unsaturated.



Chemically, the material that makes these oils very toxic is the polyunsaturated fat itself. These unsaturated oils are found in very high concentrations in many seeds, and in the fats of animals that have eaten a diet containing them. The fresh oils, whether cold pressed or consumed as part of the living plant material, are intrinsically toxic, and it is not any special industrial treatment that makes them toxic. Since these oils occur in other parts of plants at lower concentration, and in the animals which eat the plants, it is impossible to eat a diet which lacks them, unless special foods are prepared in the laboratory
Peat also states:

Unsaturated fats intensify estrogen's harmful effects.


Essential Fatty Acids ("EFA"): A Technical Point


Those fatty acids, such as linoleic acid and linolenic acid, which are found in linseed oil, soy oil, walnut oil, almond oil, corn oil, etc., are essential for the spontaneous development of cancer, and also appear to be decisive factors in the development of age pigment, alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver, diabetes, obesity, stress-induced immunodeficiency, some aspects of the shock reaction, epilepsy, brain swelling, congenital retardation, hardening of the arteries, cataracts, and other degenerative conditions. They are possibly the most important toxin for animals
So if you are taking PEOs as suggested by Peskin & not using either Safflower, Sunflower or Flax (Linseed) oil, could you tell me what you are using as i would like to use that myself?

Brian Peskin suggested in an email to me that I use 2 teaspoons of Safflower oil to 1 teaspoon of Flax oil & take 1 1/2 teaspoons of this mix a day.

So yes they do contradict each other on the point of vegetable oils.

Another area of contradiction is that Peskin claims that it is the hydrogentation of these oils that makes them carcinogenic.

Peat claims the following:

However, the basic hardening process, hydrogenation of the oils, has been found to make the oils less likely to cause cancer. If I had to choose between eating ordinary corn oil or corn oil that was 100% saturated, to make a hard margarine, I would choose the hard margarine, because it resists oxidation, isn't suppressive to the thyroid gland, and doesn't cause cancer.

I am quite surprised that you saw no contradictions between Peskin & Peat.

connie

[adipocyte]

I'm new to both of these guys, but it's my understanding that hydrogenation is what makes oils toxic, so I can't agree with Peat. Also, there's no direct evidence that hydrogenated oils cause cancer. There is evidence that they increase your risk for heart disease and stroke.

[adipocyte]

I'm not entirely sure I agree with Peskin, but the more I read, I'd trust Peskin over Peat. Here is a rebuttal to Peat from the Weston Price web site. http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/essentialfattyaciddef.html

For Peat to say there's no such thing as EFA deficiency and that they body can make it's own...is simply incorrect.

[deliria]

also a rebuttal to Peskin..

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/peskin-and-efas.html

admittedly not as harsh...

[schoonma]

Here we go again, just when we think we might be doing something right....I would love for Brian to see this thread and let him respond, he is very good at responding to all of our questions. So, should I send him the link to this thread or cut and paste it to him in an e:mail.

Thanks!
Mary Ann

[khanson]

Deliria,
I'm reading Peskin's book "Radiant Health". Thanks for this post. I'm not sure what to make of Peat's information.

Regarding not seeing results, I would think that your body could still be in a state of healing. The surgery, anesthetic, radiation, etc certainly has to take a toll on our bodies. Also your thyroid replacement hormones are probably not optimized yet. Get the hormone replacement levels right can take quite some time. A classic sign of low thyroid function is dry skin.

I wish you good health!

Hopefully this does not cause more confusion. But did you see what Dr Mercola posted recently regarding Brian Peskin's info? I was going to post it and see what y'all thought then I saw your post.

Here's the link: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/21/Two-Dietary-Oils-Two-Sets-of-Benefits.aspx

Here's some of the info from the link:

Safflower oil, which is typically used as a cooking oil, and conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), a compound naturally found in meat and dairy from grass-fed animals, are composed primarily of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs).

While I have long advocated getting plenty of CLA in your diet -- along with helping your body rid itself of fat, CLA contains many anti-cancer properties -- I have also stated that we need to decrease our total intake of omega-6 fats, including those in safflower oil.

This recommendation was based partly on the fact that omega-6 PUFAs are the building blocks of several types of inflammatory molecules, which might harm your heart and cause other illnesses by promoting inflammation in your body, coupled with the fact that most omega-6 fats in the American diet are highly processed and typically harmful.

Well, after hearing a lecture by Life-Systems Engineering Scientist, Brian Peskin, which emphasized the importance of certain PUFAs, and subsequently having dinner with Brian and reading his book The Hidden Story of Cancer, I have recently begun to rethink some of my positions on this topic.

Certain Omega-6 Fats May be Healthy

There is no question you need to eliminate MUCH of the omega-6 fats in your diet, but these are the processed fats that have been refined and heated and become virtually useless, and even worse, very harmful.

Brian’s theory, based on his study of Dr. Warburg's work from the 1930s, is that we should have about equal or twice as many parent omega-6 fats (linoleic acid, or LA) as parent omega-3 fats (alpha linolenic acid, or ALA). This is still a relatively small amount of oil, and only amounts to about 3 grams or four 750-mg capsules per day for a 150-pound adult.

It will take me some time to thoroughly evaluate this theory, and when I conclude my analysis I will report my findings to you.

In the meantime, you can likely benefit from one sound piece of advice, and that is to make sure your diet contains plenty of high-quality, and unprocessed, dietary fats.

Make Sure the PUFAs in Your Diet are Not Processed

If you want to take advantage of the health benefits of dietary fats like CLA and certain PUFAs, I do not recommend that you take CLA or other PUFA supplements of any form. As with most nutrients, it is better to get them from food than from synthetic supplements.

In the case of CLA, animal products like meat and dairy from grass-fed animals are rich in natural and healthy CLA. So simply increasing your intake of grass-fed animal products will increase your intake of this important fatty acid. This includes not only grass-fed beef but also dairy products from grass-fed cows like raw milk, raw butter and raw milk cheese.

If you simply start eating more commercially raised meat that is in most grocery stores, your health will not benefit because these animals were not fed a healthy diet. Grass-fed animals, on the other hand, have from three to five times more CLA than grain-fed animals.
At the same time, if you want to increase your intake of omega-6 oils, it is essential to use only ORGANIC, unprocessed oils. Ideally this would be in the form of their original seed precursors like safflower, sunflower, pumpkin, or sesame seeds.

Unfortunately, the primary sources of omega-6 in the U.S. are:

•Corn oil
•Canola oil
•Soy oil
•Hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated fats
•Margarine
•Shortening
You will want to avoid this entire list of over-processed, damaged and genetically modified oils, and instead look for safflower, sunflower, pumpkin or sesame seed oils that meet the following requirements:

1.Minimally processed: Look for expeller-pressed or cold-pressed oils, which are less likely to be damaged.
2.Not refined: Refined oils are stripped of flavor, color and nutrients. Look for unrefined versions, which will appear cloudy and have a stronger flavor than refined oils.
3.Bottled in dark-colored glass: Because omega-6 oils are easily damaged by heat and light, high-quality oils will be stored in dark-tinted bottles. You’ll also want to choose one packaged in glass, as plastic containers can potentially leach toxic compounds into the oil.
What Other Types of Oils Should be Included in a Healthy Diet?

The standard American diet (SAD) is almost devoid of healthy omega-3 fats, except for certain types of fish -- and fish can no longer be recommended as a safe source of omega-3s due to high levels of mercury and other toxic contaminations.

This is why I highly recommend increasing your omega-3 intake by supplementing with a high quality animal-based supplement like krill oil (while at the same time reducing your intake of the processed omega-6 fats mentioned above).

Other acceptable and beneficial oils to include in your diet are:

•High-quality extra virgin olive oil
•Coconut oil
•Avocados and high-quality avocado oil
•Organic butter, or better yet grass-fed, raw organic butter

[HF]

Deliria, welcome to the Forum! I hope you're enjoying T-Tapping. Your post is eye-opening, and I've been reading through both articles on Ray Peat and on Brian Peskin. I noticed one of the references for the thyroid research was "B. Barnes," which would be Broda Barnes, a very famous endocrinologist who did groundbreaking research on the thyroid. If Dr. Barnes says Omega-6 oils slow the thyroid, then I believe it!

Cod liver oil is safe and good for us. I had read decades ago that those who took in a lot of Omega-6 oils had a higher incidence of cancer, as compared to people who consumed butter and animal fats instead. Here is Dr. Enig's take on EFAs, in her answer to Ray Peat:

Peat’s reasoning has led him to claim that cod liver oil causes cancer because cod liver oil contains polyunsaturated fatty acids. Actually, the main fatty acid in cod liver oil is a monounsaturated fatty acid. The two main polyunsaturated fatty acids in cod liver oil are the elongated omega-3 fatty acids called EPA and DHA, which play many vital roles in the body and actually can help protect against cancer. Furthermore, cod liver oil is our best dietary source of vitamins A and D, which also protect us against cancer.

Actually, Peat’s argument that polyunsaturated fatty acids become harmful in the body and hence cause cancer simply does not make sense. It is impossible to avoid polyunsaturated fatty acids because they are in all foods.

EFAs are, however, harmful in large amounts and the many research papers cited by Peat showing immune problems, increased cancer and premature aging from feeding of polyunsaturates simply corroborate this fact. But Peat has taken studies indicating that large amounts of EFAs are bad for us (a now well-established fact) and used them to argue that we don’t need any at all.

Finally, it should be stressed that certain components of the diet actually reduce (but do not eliminate) our requirements for EFAs. The main one is saturated fatty acids which help us conserve EFAs and put them in the tissues where they belong. Some studies indicate that vitamin B6 can ameliorate the problems caused by EFA deficiency, possibly by helping us use them more efficiently.

Now here is Dr. Enig's response to Brian Peskin:

Over-Simplification

While the mixture of fact and fantasy in Peskin's message results in much confusion on the part of the reader, what emerges is over-simplification in two major areas.

First, our bodies can obviously handle a range of omega-6 to omega-3 ratios—if our body chemistry could only function at a precise ratio, the human race would have died out long ago. What we have learned from research on EFAs is that it is not good to have an extreme imbalance. The modern diet, in which omega-6 fatty acids predominate at a ratio of 20 to 1—with most of these omega-6 fatty acids rendered rancid by processing—creates serious imbalances on the cellular level; likewise, overdosing on flax oil or fish oil creates an imbalance in which omega-3s predominate, leading to lowered immunity—a finding of long standing which Peskin announces as though it were his own discovery.

Modern research has also indicated that it is not healthy to consume too much of either of the EFAs, even though they may be in the "right" balance, and that the body uses EFAs to best advantage when the diet contains adequate saturated fat, an important fact which Peskin does not mention.

Secondly, while the cells indeed need oxygen and EFAs in the cell membrane play a role in transporting oxygen into the cell, this is not a simple process, but one that depends on numerous co-factors, as Warburg rightly observed. These include the myriad components of the cell membrane, such as cholesterol, proteins and a variety of fatty acids, and minerals such as magnesium and manganese.

As far as cancer prevention is concerned, EFAs represent a two-edged sword. Small numbers in the cell membrane do allow oxygen to enter the cell, but if the cell membrane contains too many unsaturated fatty acids, the cell becomes "leaky," with all sorts of compounds going into and out of the cell when they are not supposed to. EFAs can easily become rancid, meaning that free radicals develop during processing, cooking and exposure to air, causing uncontrolled reactions in the body. And finally, as mentioned earlier, a surfeit of EFAs lowers immunity. For these reasons, EFAs can contribute to cancer, even though they also play a role in preventing cancer.

The upshot is that oil blends with magical EFA ratios are no panacea and claims that these products will definitively prevent cancer represent huckstering, however well disguised. Small amounts of essential fatty acids are available to us in all whole foods; the body uses these best in the context of a nutrient-dense diet containing adequate amounts of saturated fat. Foods rich in certain fatty acids—such as coconut oil, flax oil, evening primrose oil and cod liver oil—can play a role in the treatment and prevention of disease, but only when used with care along with a diet of real food.


I underlined Dr. Enig's answer to both gentlemen (and Udo Erasmus, too, btw). Her point is, get your walnut oil from walnuts, your flax oil from ground flax, sunflower oil from sunflower seeds, eat salmon, eggs, butter, etc. It's all about eating whole foods.

And to cook with? Use butter, coconut or palm oil, some olive oil, some sesame oil (for flavor). I think many of us (including me:eek:) have fallen into the convenience of taking capsules of oils rather than eating those foods that contain the oils in the first place - the fish, the nuts and seeds, the veggies. Sometimes a supplement is the only way to get enough into a person who resists eating the sources of those oils!:rolleyes:

[deliria]

Here we go again, just when we think we might be doing something right....I would love for Brian to see this thread and let him respond, he is very good at responding to all of our questions. So, should I send him the link to this thread or cut and paste it to him in an e:mail.

Thanks!
Mary Ann

Would love to hear Brian's response to Peat's claims.

Hopefully he will give a somewhat detailed response.

Responses such as "This guy is an idiot, pay no attention to him" are of no use to anyone.

[pamelaw]

I wrote Dr. Enig because she obviously had not read Brian Peskin's book. Her attacks are based on hearsay, not his book. I've read both the Radiant Health and Hidden Story of Cancer and have both of them in my library and she used misquotes and half truths to attack him.

She never wrote me back.

However, ever time I've written to Brian Peskin, HE HAS written me back.

[Tracey]

Way to go Pamelaw! I really like the results I am getting from the oils. My PMS and breast tenderness are gone and my skin is very smooth. I even notice this if I have weeks where I eat improperly. I give them to my kids and we at playoffs for 8 hours with no sunscreen and I was worried because a few of my kids are fair skinned and burn, but they did not. They only turned a slight pink and that was gone the next day or two. I did email him about this and like you say he emails right of way. It is confusing, though, to hear one way is right and then hear the opposite, it is like that with everything and drives me crazy. I like the fact that he gives research proof for everything, though. I wish I knew how to email him this but I am not computer friendly, because I would like to hear his opinion on this also.
Tracey

[pamelaw]

I think it all goes back to the hard science, with which his books are chock full.

I'm finding that the PEO's, the Sun Chlorella and the Vitalzyme and eating lots of fresh berries daily, minimal starches and refined foods and lots of good quality protein has made a big difference for all of us.

My skin is soft and silky and we don't burn, either, and we are very light skinned.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of it (and not dying!). That saying came from a time when mushroooms were made into puddings and the proof of whether or not they were safe mushrooms was in the eating of it without death or ill effects.

Well, there are so many of us who are living proof that Brian Peskin has come up with very practical and do-able things to build health and protect against cancer, right the body systems and eliminate obesity.

I think combined with Vital Enzymes, which Dr. William Wong goes into in great detail, it will make for much improved health for all of us.

Hugs and keep up the great work, Tracy!

I'm also impressed that with only a small handful of posts the originator of this thread has made such EXCELLENT posts and is such a thorough thinker. :reading:Welcome to T-Tapp and this forum. I'm so looking forward to getting to know you better.

hugs,

[HF]

Would love to hear Brian's response to Peat's claims.

Hopefully he will give a somewhat detailed response.

Responses such as "This guy is an idiot, pay no attention to him" are of no use to anyone.

I reread the posts and didn't see anyone calling people idiots.

I used the references linked to Weston A. Price and noted from Dr. Enig that it is preferred to get our oils from whole foods rather than by themselves. There is a balance somewhere between the opinions of both gentlemen.

[Tracey]

And Pamelaw,
I think if there were no processed foods to get in my way and I could only eat the nuts, seeds, organic and everything untouched and unprocessed, I could get my proper amount of PEOs staight from eating. But, that is not always possible for us, so I mix and take a small amount of my oils.
Tracey

[pamelaw]

Same here. I try hard, but with a DH who loves to eat out so much, it's not possible for us either.

[deliria]

I reread the posts and didn't see anyone calling people idiots.

I used the references linked to Weston A. Price and noted from Dr. Enig that it is preferred to get our oils from whole foods rather than by themselves. There is a balance somewhere between the opinions of both gentlemen.

What I meant was....if someone does pass this onto Brian I hope he gives a detailed response as to why he disagrees with Peat. I was hoping his response wouldn't be along the lines of "Don't listen to this guy he is an idiot".

Personally, I hope Peskin is right. Something about him rings true.

[Blessed_with_6]

Have you read Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon? Some great info in there about wellness in general. From what I have read from her and from MANY other sources, organic virgin coconut oil is excellent to help boost the immune system as well as being beneficial for numerous other health issues. I have never heard of Peskin and have not had to deal with cancer in my close family, but Fallon's book offers lots of great ideas on a broad range of topics as well as lots of recipes to boot!

[HF]

And Pamelaw,
I think if there were no processed foods to get in my way and I could only eat the nuts, seeds, organic and everything untouched and unprocessed, I could get my proper amount of PEOs staight from eating. But, that is not always possible for us, so I mix and take a small amount of my oils.
Tracey

Hi Tracey, I think you meant me rather than Pamela!

I agree with you! It IS hard to get everything we need straight from today's foods. I'm not condemning anyone for supplementing with whatever oils, I was answering the points from both authors with info from the Weston A. Price website, which links had already been given in prior posts in this thread.

I would appreciate knowing any half-truths Dr. Enig may have put forth, because I don't like to pass along misinformation. Please educate me on this issue. Thanks.

[pamelaw]

Helena, if you've not read Brian Peskin's The Hidden Story of Cancer, then I recommend you do. Then you'll see the many obvious signs that Dr. Enig probably read quack watch and based her attacks on that biased hearsay instead of her firsthand knowledge from having actually read his works and knowing what she is talking about.

The book is well worth adding to a personal library. I just don't feel there's a point to answering the contradictions if there is not a frame of reference by knowing what Brian Peskin has actually written.

You may be able to see some of the points from his videos that someone has posted the links to.

[schoonma]

Okay Ladies,

Since I have corresponded quite a bit with Brian Peskin, I cut and past deliria's post and sent it to him in an e:mail. When I get a response from him, I will let you know.

Thanks!
Mary Ann

[schoonma]

Hi Ladies,

Here is the response I got from the e:mail I got from Brian, I do laugh at his directness and his way with words....

Hi Brian,

This is going to be long because I was not sure if you are subscribed to the new T-Tapp Boards so, please read the cut & paste I got off one of the threads and please respond so I can post.


Thank you.

**not this, no -- I am familiar with him and he is dangerous because some of what he says is true and some is insane. for example, to say there are no PEOs is INSANE because structurally there body tissues have lots of parent omega-6 and to a lesser extent parent omega-3 .....my articles are based on medical science --- not mere "studies" subject to interpretation. hope they can sort things out -- but most people tragically can not separate tin from gold and i can't help them. all i can say is read my material then anyone else's if you can't tell a difference then lord help you.

thanks and all my best, b

Hope that helps some of you....

Mary Ann

[pamelaw]

:laughing: He is succinct. I can only add that people really need to make this information their own by examining the hard science and actually reading his works before deciding what to do.

[deliria]

i'm sticking with Peskin then...what he has written makes a lot of good sense to me.

It just throws you when you find someone else taking the complete opposite viewpoint.
I mean Peat actually states that "Cancer can only occur if you have Polyunsaturated oils in your diet".

I guess those of us following Peskin have to hope Peat has got the PEO thing completely wrong....otherwise we are in trouble!

[pamelaw]

Dr. Otto Warbug, a Nobel Winning scientist reknowned for his thoroughness and integrity, proved a long time ago that when cell respiration decreases by 33%, cancer begins. His work has been confirmed over and over again through the years, so protecting the cells is critical.

[HF]

Pamela, I know Dr. Mercola has conversed with Brian Peskin and is reconsidering his avoidance of Omega-6 oils. I am interested to hear his opinion about this.

But I still would like to know where Mary Enig is incorrect; if I remember correctly, she herself has been subject to attacks from Quackwatch, so . . . I take that with a grain of salt. I have read her books, though, and they are totally documented.

I did also note earlier that Broda Barnes, M.D., discovered that excessive Omega-6 oils depress thyroid activity - that was noted at the beginning of this thread in Deliria's first post ("B. Barnes"). Evening primrose oil is recommended as healthful for the thyroid, however - but that is one Omega-6 that would be nearly impossible to get from the source!:rolleyes: Flowers for dinner, anyone?

[pamelaw]

Helena, again, if you've not read his book, there's no point. There is just so much she gets wrong. I can only add that people really need to make this information their own by examining the hard science and actually reading his works before deciding what to do. __________________

[pamelaw]

I just wanted to add that the thread already called The Best Book on Cancer Ever has a great deal of information already presented. I just don't have the time or energy to reiterate it all or argue with Dr. Enig.

This is such an important topic and no decisions should be made based on second hand information. These things we need to make our own and then decide.

hugs,

[rosetapper23]

Pamela,

Thank you--that was well said. People should read Peskin's book, "The Hidden Story of Cancer," before deciding whether certain theories are right or wrong.

[JeanM]

No comment on the book as I have not read it, but I laughed out loud at Brian's response! What a hoot!!!!!

Jean

[Melissa52]

For anyone interested in viewing Paul's videos on youtube, I'll tell you how I found them, and a little bit about his message. I was doing a search in youtube for Brian Peskin, and found a video in the mix by Paul Beatty called 'The myths and truths of evening primrose oil'.

I was very impressed with the information Paul shared in the videos, found his website, and wrote an email to him. I asked him why he recommended Brian's book Hidden Story, but also had a different EFA recommendation. (He recommends Evening Primrose Oil and Cod Liver Oil, 3 caps 1,000 mg. EPO and 1 cap 1,000 mg. CLO.)

If anyone is interested or intrigued, Paul has several videos on youtube, and also a website: www.lifesavingfats.com. He talks about Dr. David Horrobin, who he calls the pioneer of EFAs.

If anyone does listen, I look forward to reading your thoughts and comments!

[khanson]

Melissa, Thanks for sharing. I'll have to view the video. I was reading Radiant Health by Peskin when this thread started. Very interesting about EPO. I'm not sure what to do with the information.

Years ago I tried taking EPO for terrible PMS. It aggrevated it. Since that time, I have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So I have (or maybe had) a conversion issue. I suspect it was increasing my estrogen rather than progesterone. Apparently hypothyroid folks are poor converters due to our low body temps. My body temps have now risen since starting hormone replacement. So I don't know whether I would have the same problem now.

So I had been holding off on ordering Brian's formula because of it having a small amount of EPO. Now I'm not sure how to proceed with Beatty's information. Maybe I'll get a bottle of EPO and give it a try but I sure to hate to aggrevate my hormone balance that I've worked so hard to achieve. I guess for now I'll just think about it and keep reading.

[Melissa52]

Hi Kim!
Paul recommends ONLY Efamol brand. There is a detailed explanation on the videos, and on his website. He also only recommends Carlson brand CLO.

I understand your hesitation completely, and your confusion! I am still trying to understand all of this EFA stuff. Before Peskin, I did a lot of reading at Weston Price foundation, and CLO is one of their most important recommendations as a super food. I also read Mary Enig's article that is being talked about on this thread.

Still, I have great respect and admiration for Prof Peskin, and really value the information and the truth that he brings.

I guess we all have to sort through the EFA information, and do what we feel is best.

[pamelaw]

Melissa, just a thought to complete a picture: Enzymes to help reduce fibrin problems (look up Dr. Wong - it's fascinating. www.drwong.us) AND using 3 parts Mullein tincture to 1 part Lobelia tincture directly on your throat covering the sides and in front where the 'Adam's Apple' would be really helps heal the thyroid.

I think a reduction in cravings is huge and the other two things I mention may complete the puzzle for you. Just a thought.

[Tracey]

Melissa,
If take the EPO and CLO, is it necessary to take PEO's also? This is interesting.

[HF]

Melissa, thanks for posting about the Paul Beatty videos - glad you're doing better, too!

[Melissa52]

Hi Pamela,
I appreciate your suggestion, but...I don't have a thyroid to heal!

I will look up Dr Wong. I've never heard of him, or the enzymes. Thank you!

[Melissa52]

Hi Tracey,

I really don't know, but I do still take the PEOs.

I'm looking forward to hearing all of your opinions, whoever listens to Paul's videos!

[Melissa52]

Thank you, Helena!

[Tracey]

Hi Melissa,
I listened to his videos last night and am glad to hear him recommend Peskin's book. I emailed him but have not heard back yet. I remember reading in Brian's book that EPO was one of the oils of choices. So, is this the same protocol as Peskin's but using EPO and CLA as the specific choice? Do you take 3 to 1 of the capsules? I am going to order some and see how it goes. Right now I have my boys on Peskin's capsules but will switch them when we run out. BTW, I could not hear the comment on the video before it ended, but what was the 2 things he corrected with Peskin?
Thanks so much
Tracey

[Melissa52]

Look for PM!

[deliria]

I had watched Paul Beatty's videos a while back & as I was intrigued I emailed Brian Peskin.

Below is my email with his responses in red.

I have been watching some videos from Paul Beatty. he pretty much agrees with everything you have to say (in one video he was even talking about your cancer book). Paul Beatty advocates the use of Evening Primrose Oil. **excellent --- it has GLA and i DO like it -- MUST be organic

I use Safflower Oil as my Omega 6 PEO, would more benefit be acheived by using Evening Primrose Oil as my Omega 6 PEO instead. **split between both oils (use 50% of each instead of all safflower and it is better).
best, b

So Brian Peskin thinks a mix of 50% Safflower & 50% Evening Primrose for Omega 6 affords better results.

He mentioned it should be organic, now all the Evening Primose Oil I find that is organic is also cold pressed, I'm sure Paul Beatty says not to use cold pressed as it destroys 'something' can anyone elablorate on that?

[deliria]

...but i took the liberty of emailing Brian & asking him about some of the stuff that Paul Beatty mentions.

Once again my email to Brian & his reponses in red.

Someone emailed Paul Beatty & asked him why he recommends your book Hidden Story, when he has a different EFA protocol. Paul Beatty recommends Evening Primrose Oil and Cod Liver Oil. 3 caps 1,000 mg. EPO to 1 cap 1,000 mg. CLO. **damn ..... i'm glad he recommends my book ----- i do recall that.

His response claimed, that a percentage of the population has an impaired ability to make the derivatives out of the parent oils. ** this wrong conclusion stems from fact that most people think the % of derivatives from parents is high when in fact < a mere 5% --- or even closer to just 1% .....

Specifically those who have alcoholism or diabetes in their ancestry, to a couple generations back. Is this true?
**no, if this were true you'd be dead ....

He also says that the Evening Primrose oil shouldn't be cold pressed as cold pressing destroys something in the oil....is that true?
**no -- no idea what the hell he could possibly mean

All the organic EPO I find is cold pressed also. **it is ALL i want -- anything else is chemically processed.

Thanks ** thank you .... all my best, b

[Melissa52]

Very interesting, Deliria!

[deliria]

Very interesting, Deliria!

What would be so great is to have Paul & the Prof. get together for a discussion on video. I have a feeling there would be a few fireworks! But very valuable information would be shared.

Certainly would be interesting...

The thing I am wondering, though, as much as I admire and respect the Prof...why didn't I get better results after almost 9 months on the PEOs?

What were you using as your PEOs? Were you using the pre-mixed ones from 'YES' or were you mixing your own? I have been using Safflower as my Omega 6 & Flax as my Omega 3. However, Brian does say that 50% Safflower & 50% EPO as your Omega 6 works better, so maybe the EPO you are using now has made the difference?

I'm beginning to ramble a bit, but I'm trying to get at a point. Does any of this make sense? One person can take an aspirin and another needs ibuprofen, or something even stronger. Why? Because our systems respond differently to various substances because of the chemical reactions going on in our bodies that are unique to the individual.

OK, I'm done. I would love to read other's thoughts on this.

I do get what you mean...I sometimes wonder if it can all be that straight forward for everyone.
As someone with a recent thyroid cancer diagnosis, resulting in Total Thyroidectomy, RAI & now lifelong thyroid hormone replacement....I'm trying to find anything that will help me NOT develop cancer anywhere, ever again.

[Tracey]

Hi everyone!

I have emailed Paul but no response yet. Isn't his ratio of omega 6(epo) and omega 3 the same as Peskin's? Is Cod liver oil the same omega 3 as Flax? Also, is Efamol the best brand or is there others? I think I am going to try Beatty's formula and do what Melissa is doing by including 1/2 tsp. of my Saff,Sunflower and flax mix. This way I would probably be doing what Brian recommends above except I will have both flax and cod liver.

I heard on some testimonials that he recommends 6 EPO and 2 CLO. Anyone?

I love that you gals share your discoveries!

[deliria]

yes...the ratio is the same.
I think the only discrepancy is that Beatty recommends cod liver oil For Omega 3 while Peskin is anti fish oils & recommends Flax oil for Omega 3.

[Tracey]

Where do you find a good priced Efamol Evening primrose oil? Thanks
Tracey

[dsmith]

On the Carlson Fish Oil, do you get the reg or the one that says super...would the liquid be the same ratio as the caps? I've got another bottle of flax I have to finish & will try it then, but can go ahead & order some Efamol EPO.

[Melissa52]

I got the Efamol EPO from: www.needs.com
It is the best price I was able to find.

And the Carlson CLO I found at www.iherb.com
The regular lightly lemon.

Paul says that the EPO and CLO caps should both
be 1,000 mg.

Tracey, I look forward to hearing the response
from Paul. Let us all know!

[shh]

Melissa,
Do you take the EPOs and the CLO caps all at one time? Or do you spread the EPOs out over the day? Just wondering if it's important to take the two together to get a proper balance, you know what I'm saying?

Thanks,
Suzie

[Melissa52]

Hi Suzie,

I take them all together at one time, in the morning with my multivitamin and breakfast. Paul said it is important to take certain vitamins and minerals that help the absorption and utilization of the oils.

If you look on Efamol's website, there is a supplement called PMP, which doesn't seem to be available
in the USA, that has EPO with the essential vitamins and minerals.

Have you watched any of the videos? They're packed full of info!
At his website there is a lot of valuable information about EFAs.

[Taxcat]

Has anyone read the book called "The China Study" my mother started reading this book and it seems to have scientific evidence that supports a diet that is mostly vegitarian with only 5% of the protein coming from animal sources.
Since I have not personally read this book yet and only have what my mother is telling me, I have sent an e-mail to Brian to ask him if he has heard of this book and what his thoughts are.

I am going to visit my parents next month and was planning on giving them my copy of Brian's book to read, but I wanted to also have some additional ammunition to back my views up knowing that they will have just finished The China Study.

If anyone else has read that book as well as Brian's book I would also love to hear your comments as well.

Elizabeth

[gillmings]

There has been at least one old thread about The China Study, either here or on the Nutrition Forum. Try a search.

[Mamasaphire6]

Hi Pamela,
I appreciate your suggestion, but...I don't have a thyroid to heal!


Having had my thyroid out this past November due to follicular thyroid cancer I can relate to that statement :).

So many people have helpful suggestions for my "thyroid" now. I know they mean well and don't understand (ie. w/breast cancer some breast tissue may remain after treatments) that I have *no* thyroid to "nourish".

Anyhow, I am enjoying reading this discussion thread. I had never heard of any of those authors (besides B. Barnes).

We personally have only used extra virgin cold pressed olive oil, virgin coconut oil (Tropical Traditions), and butter for the past 8+ years (plus a little supplementing w/ cod liver oil and EPO), and the cancer still began & grew rapidly to 4cm sometime between my last thyroid ultrasound/biopsy in 2006 and diagnosis ultrasound/biopsy in 2008.

So that's my personal experience, fwiw.

[Melissa52]

My "no thyroid" sister!!! LOL!!!

Yes, I know, it can be frustrating at times, especially when I read almost any health information relating to the thyroid. Someone who still has a thyroid, even if hypo, must have certain hormones secreted, even if at very low levels. It also still has some activity.

I went to a holistic doc for breast thermography, and she gave me iodine to take along with L-Tyrosine to help assimilate it. She said that the thyroid needs this amino acid, or the iodine is not absorbed into the system. I questioned her on this, and said I have no thyroid gland to deal with any amino acid, so how does that apply to me? Her answer was very condescending, and she said that the hormones are in my system because of the meds that help with the necessary conversion. Needless to say, I may not go back there! I really believe that not having a thyroid is a distinct disadvantage in absorbing and assimilating certain nutrients, no matter how many hormones I have in my system. Nothing I ingest will help my thryoid do anything, because there is no thyroid there to do anything!!! The gland itself performs a crucial function for the body that goes beyond secreting hormones.

This is one of the main reasons why I switched my EFA protocol to Paul Beatty, rather than Peskin. I want to take the EFAs that do not require a conversion.

This whole issue is so very complicated. If only there was a holistic endocrinologist! I do have an appointment coming up very soon with someone that was highly recommended on Mary Shomon's list of top docs. I will have to travel a ways to get there, but it will be worth it. Not having a thyroid is such a unique situation, and makes it even trickier to balance all of the hormones, not just T4 & T3. This doctor also specializes in female hormones, so it should be interesting! I am hopeful that she may be able to help me with several issues.

There is no doubt that I am experiencing improved health with my new EFA protocol, in a few different areas. I truly feel that I am on the right track. If I was a typical healthy person with no issues, I would probably have responded wonderfully to Peskin's protocol. But with a history of autoimmune disease and cancer, I think my system has unique needs.

[Betsyg]

I also have no thyroid and find that interesting. I was also interested to find that I could still have Hashi's antibodies with no thyroid. Our bodies are weird and that's all there is to it, I guess. :)

[khanson]

It's my understanding that once someone who is hypothyroid starts hormone replacement, the thyroid quits producing hormones. Of course, now I can't find any references to support this.

Getting the right diagnosis took me over 30 years. Treatment and balancing the other hormones has been far from easy. It can be very difficult to get a doctor that "gets it". I know one of the moderators on a support group I belong to says that the best thyroid doctors are the ones that are hypothyroid themselves.

Best of luck, Melissa, at your doctor's appointment. I hope this doctor is a good one.

[Melissa52]

Betsy, that is interesting about still having the hashi antibodies. I remember my endo telling me something similar when I had Grave's Disease. The immune system attacks the thyroid, but even if the thyroid is gone, the immune system is still not in balance. It is overactive. There is always that balancing act going on. I have to be careful not to get over-stimulated, and also not to get over tired. Do you find that as well? How long has it been for you since you were diagnosed and treated? Did you take the RAI?

And k, I didn't know that...about the thyroid not producing hormones once you're hypothyroid. So, even though you still have a thyroid, it is completely non-functioning? So, if that is true, someone who is hypothyroid has the exact same challenges regarding TSH as someone who has no thyroid at all?

[gillmings]

Synthetic hormones stop your glands from producing their own hormones, and that goes for estrogen and progesterone, and others. Natural, bio-identical hormones, however, do NOT have that effect, and some people even start producing more of the hormone(s) they were deficient in, once things get balanced out.

[HF]

Has anyone read the book called "The China Study" my mother started reading this book and it seems to have scientific evidence that supports a diet that is mostly vegitarian with only 5% of the protein coming from animal sources.
Since I have not personally read this book yet and only have what my mother is telling me, I have sent an e-mail to Brian to ask him if he has heard of this book and what his thoughts are.

I am going to visit my parents next month and was planning on giving them my copy of Brian's book to read, but I wanted to also have some additional ammunition to back my views up knowing that they will have just finished The China Study.

If anyone else has read that book as well as Brian's book I would also love to hear your comments as well.

Elizabeth

Well, there is another side to "The China Study": http://www.anthonycolpo.com/the_china_study.html

Considering what a diverse group we humans are, no doubt there are some who do better on mostly plant foods, others who thrive on mostly animals foods (Aleut "Eskimos," the Masai), and so many variations on plant vs. animal protein in between.

Dr. Joseph Mercola expounds more on this them in his Metabolic Typing program, like are you a carb type, a protein type, etc. You may enjoy checking it out: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2003/02/01/metabolic-typing-diet.aspx

There are many interesting theories out there, Elizabeth! And welcome to The Forum, btw!:D

[Betsyg]

Betsy, that is interesting about still having the hashi antibodies. I remember my endo telling me something similar when I had Grave's Disease. The immune system attacks the thyroid, but even if the thyroid is gone, the immune system is still not in balance. It is overactive. There is always that balancing act going on. I have to be careful not to get over-stimulated, and also not to get over tired. Do you find that as well? How long has it been for you since you were diagnosed and treated? Did you take the RAI?



Melissa, I don't have Graves, I had thyroid cancer. I had two surgeries to remove my thyroid in the summer of 2005. They thought it wasn't cancer and left half the first time, then they said Ooops! I did have RAI, but I understand it's not as uncomfortable a procedure after surgery as it is for someone who's zapping an entire thyroid.

I went into menopause right after that - I'm certainly old enough, but I think the RAI "did" something because it was like turning off a faucet. Prior to that I'd skipped maybe 3 times in as many years. So all my hormones are a little whacked out. Plus I was later diagnosed with a sleep problem. So unfortunately, even with hormone replacement I still feel like crap.

RAI was pretty interesting. My husband stayed with me while the tech prepared the hospital room, covering everything with Saran wrap. We were laughing hysterically once he was gone.

[Melissa52]

Hi Betsy,
I thought when you said you still had hashi's antibodies, that you had hashimoto's. I didn't realize you had cancer! That must have been scary, but I have read that thyroid cancer is one of the most treatable. Isn't hashi's very similar to Grave's? Was hashi's the cause of your cancer?
Every time I go to an endocrinologist, they still check my neck, press and have me swallow. I suppose there is still a chance of cancer because of the RAI. I'm not sure, but I'm going to ask some questions when I go to this new endo.

So you not only had surgery, but also RAI! They had me take the RAI to avoid surgery. The doc said that they don't always get it all. That pesky thyroid gland! It likes to hide behind other things. :)

I also went into menopause, only I was 37 yrs old at the time. I asked about that ahead of time, because it was a concern, but they assured me that it would not happen. Sure enough, my periods became further and further apart, and I was post-menopausal by the age of 38. I agree with you, that RAI is some powerful stuff. I remember how afraid I was, and really fought it. I tried to go the holistic route, which failed. By the time I went for the RAI, I was quite a sick young woman.

I've read on different boards that many people opt for the drug over the RAI because of the fear, and I wouldn't go back and change anything, if I had the choice. So many people say that the drug (can't think of the name, but it suppresses the thyroid gland to get it into hypo) causes many side effects. I have a friend who took the drug, and she gained about 50 pounds. And she was always a very thin person. There are many other uncomfortable side effects. I do realize there are many with the RAI, but I am happy with my decision. I never gained any weight, or had any other detectable side effects. Except maybe menopause! Of course, it is possible that it causes other cancers, I'm not sure. (Another question for the new doc!) I asked my doc at the time where the RAI came from, and he told me part of the brew was from a nuclear waste treatment plant. Oh, how fun! I felt like I was in a horror flick or something.

When I read about your actual experience with the taking of the RAI, I laughed! I remembered my own. The nurse came in dressed in a 'space suit', covered head to toe. She had this old beat up looking ceramic container, and placed it in front of me on the table. She then went out of the room, and watched me through this little window, to make sure I drank it all. I opened the container, and with the straw I took three big sips and it was gone! It just tasted like stale water. I couldn't believe I was actually drinking something that would destroy a part of my body! And that was it. Over.

What a crazy life it is sometimes! :)

[Betsyg]

I have both Hashimoto's and cancer. I had the antibodies test just once before the surgery and they were low. But the pathology report said I had it. I hadn't realized they could test it that way.

Surgery followed by RAI is the standard thyroid cancer treatment. Some people elect to just have one side of the thyroid removed and keep the other. However, I've heard that it's hard to regulate the hormones with half a gland. I guess if you're going to be on replacement hormones forever, best get the whole darned thing out (and I wish now I'd done that and saved myself a surgery). As your doctor said, the surgery leaves little shreds of tissue, and the RAI gets rid of those. I think it's a lower dose than you might have gotten since there's less tissue.

I had a pill, not the liquid. My endo brought it into the room and waited while I swallowed. He didn't hang around long after that, though! :) I saw people in space suits after that, when they came in with the geiger counter gizmo and tested me.

[pamelaw]

{{{Betsy}}} I'm just sending you hugs and best, best wishes.:)

[Mamasaphire6]

There is always that balancing act going on. I have to be careful not to get over-stimulated, and also not to get over tired. Do you find that as well? How long has it been for you since you were diagnosed and treated? Did you take the RAI?

And k, I didn't know that...about the thyroid not producing hormones once you're hypothyroid. So, even though you still have a thyroid, it is completely non-functioning? So, if that is true, someone who is hypothyroid has the exact same challenges regarding TSH as someone who has no thyroid at all?

I know you didn't address this to me, lol, but I agree about the balancing act. I started on 137 Synthroid, and am now on Synthroid & Cytomel (which Dr agreed to put me on after my RAI in April). They keep my heart racing all the time, which leaves me with little energy.

My dr says that I need to keep my TSH as close to 0% as possible. So, for a cancer survivor the 0.03-3% scale is inaccurate. Right now mine is close to 0.0100007% -- VERY hyper but hopefully suppressing any further cancer growth.

So technically we cancer survivors are *not* in the same boat as someone with a suppressed/hypo/hyper thyroid, b/c they are aiming for a more natural TSH level. They have a balancing act too, but it's less extreme than ours.

What variant did you ladies have? I had the follicular which hit me very aggressively, and is much harder to treat than the papillary (which is the most common). If you don't know your variant it is probably papillary or they would have told you.

My dr is caring but only treats the TSH and only goes by lab values, so my other hormonal symptoms are raging uncontrollably <sigh>. I could switch docs, but am afraid to go to someone who is not a *cancer* specialist.

Good luck on the new doc! hope it goes well!

[Mamasaphire6]

I had a pill, not the liquid. My endo brought it into the room and waited while I swallowed. He didn't hang around long after that, though! :) I saw people in space suits after that, when they came in with the geiger counter gizmo and tested me.

LOL, Ikwym! I had the pill too -- I felt like I was in a strange movie... they made me sign a ton of forms and then came in with a canister that had lead walls, unscrewed it, they watched me swallow it, and then rushed me out -- "don't get into the elevator with ANYONE".

I stayed at my Dad & stepmom's house for 10 days so I wouldn't expose my children, watched a lot of "I love Lucy" dvds ;)

[khanson]

I just want to clarify that I read that the thyroid quits producing once on thyroid replacement on two different forums. But like I said, I can't find any references to support it.

[HF]

Kim, I read that somewhere, too. But did the forums say which form of thyroid supplement caused this? Was this synthetic only, or also the natural form?

[khanson]

I would think either. As I remember it has to do with the feedback loop with the pituitary. I wish I could remember the details. It was when I was first diagnosed and I was very sick at the time...essentially disabled.

[Betsyg]

Hannah, you weren't hospitalized for RAI? I stayed in the hospital until the radiation levels got down to a certain point. I think it ended up being two days, but not sure now. How the heck do you manage the empty elevator trick anyway? If you wait for an empty one, you're hanging around in the hall with people. And what if someone gets on with you?

I have follicular cancer also. I don't remember any of the other details about it now. I'm on my umpteenth doctor, not wanting to see one who prescribed only synthetics and went by TSH. I had the endo, of course, who did precribe Synthroid. Then I switched to a very good doctor about 400 miles away, but had to stop seeing him because of the expense. Oddly enough, if I'd understood my new insurance plan at the time I probably could have stayed with him. He put me on Armour, and I've been taking it ever since.

Then I tried a couple of local doctors. Oy, that was a trip. Finally ended up consulting by phone with a well-known holistic doctor in FL. He's expensive, but once you get settled with him, you can consult just once a year and get all your prescriptions. Unfortunately I was diagnosed with a sleep disorder and had trouble with the meds, so I was "seeing" him every 2-3 months. That was just too much!

I found a local doctor who was absolutely wonderful. I saw him twice. A day or two before my 3rd appointment the office called and said he was sick and would have to reschedule. I don't know what happened, but I'm guessing stroke (he was in his late 50s). He never came back and the office is now closed.

And now I've found yet another local doctor. She seems to be very good - and she also has thyroid cancer! The office is pretty busy, but so far so good. As long as I can get my prescription for Armour I'm happy.

Unfortunately, there's a shortage of Armour, and I might end up back on Synthroid. Full circle in 4 years, lol.

[Mamasaphire6]

Yes, they sent me home immediately... I went to the Cleveland Clinic which is apparently more "progressive". They used to keep you in a lead room for 4 days... now nothing. I didn't (and still don't) get why they have changed their policy so drastically. I asked & asked if this was safe and they said "yes, but don't be by anybody".:dontknow:

What RAI level did they give you?

[Mamasaphire6]

And now I've found yet another local doctor. She seems to be very good - and she also has thyroid cancer! The office is pretty busy, but so far so good. As long as I can get my prescription for Armour I'm happy.

Unfortunately, there's a shortage of Armour, and I might end up back on Synthroid. Full circle in 4 years, lol.

I read about the Armour shortage... politics are at the root apparently.

It's awesome you found an understanding dr locally!

[Mamasaphire6]

Oh, and if you go back to Synthroid, try doing Cytomel too. The combo means you are getting T3 and T4 which has helped me feel better than plain Synthroid.

[Betsyg]

I would definitely have to add Cytomel. I didn't convert to T3 apparently even before this mess started.

[schoonma]

Hi,

Seems this thread has gotten way off the PEO topic :laughing:

Anyone still taking their PEO's...anything new to report?

Still taking mine.

Mary Ann

[peppy lepew]

I have watched Brian's video on the web and he said doesn't suggest hemp oil because it has not been studied enough. I have been using hemp oil in place of safflower because it was the only one I could find at the hfs that was cold pressed. I seem to be doing fine with it, I think it does have the omega 6 that is needed to balance the flax oil. I was also wondering if Udo's would do the same, if you read the label it has the correct balance of omega 6 & 3? The barleans oil with the evening primrose oil looks like it has the correct balance also.

[healthnutt]

I just found this forum and started reading. I had colon cancer in 2007...surgery, and chemo...it had not spread...I too have purchased Brian Peskin's books...And I can tell you that is the most important book about cancer etc I have every read...I have purchased one for myself.. gave one to my doctor, and gave one to my sister who is being treated for cancer and whose her husband will not do anything different than what the doctor says...and how sad..whatever the doctor says to take...she will take...I am trying to convince her that this book is like throwing her a life line...no response,,,,total silence...I can't do anything more than that....it is falling on deaf ears...any suggestions...Also...what what are they selling on www.savingfats.com (http://www.savingfats.com) site...Does he recomend any products etc...any response would be appreciated...

[healthnutt]

One more thought Brian Peskine lecture to heart doctors and cancer doctors all over the country with thier mouths wide open upon hearing what he has discovered. Read some of the doctors comments if you can...

[Melissa52]

There are no product sales on the Life Saving Fats website, only links to Weston Price Foundation and Efamol. Paul Beatty's recommendation is 3 Efamol Evening Primrose Oil to 1 Cod Liver Oil or Fish Oil. Have you seen any of his videos?
Paul recommends a different EFA formula than Prof. Peskin. IMHO, both recommendations are excellent, depending on the individual's needs. I am personally doing much better with the EPO and CLO than I did with the PEO formula.

It's sad that some people are not open to alternative healing. All we can do is share the information with them, and hope they want to try it.

I wish you continued good health!

[WendyD]

Hi Healthnutt. Welcome to the forums!

[Lori French]

I got lazy and instead of premixing another batch of PEOs, decided to use up my Udo's oil. My alligator like skin came back within a couple of days..... Wondering if I should up my PEOs for a bit so that I can miss a few days and not see the skin issues return so quickly????????

[healthnutt]

How are you doing better and in what way...I do not want this colon cancer to come back....Brian never recomends fish oil...I am a little scary of that taking the fish oil........ I mix safflower oil and barleans oil...2-1......useing his recomendation...I am going to start mixing epo half and half soon. you comments must appreciated...
Can I get epo in liquid form...I found one at Flora...
Thanks
Sid

[healthnutt]

I got lazy and instead of premixing another batch of PEOs, decided to use up my Udo's oil. My alligator like skin came back within a couple of days..... Wondering if I should up my PEOs for a bit so that I can miss a few days and not see the skin issues return so quickly????????

If you were having good results with the PEO...continue with that 2-1...in favor of omega 6...I am going to start using EMO in the mix 1/2 emo....1/2 safflower oil and flax oil...with the proper ratio...I am wondering...I never did get the energy that was said we would get from Brian's mix...do you think the EMO would do the trick..Brian like EMO also...just wondering..
thanks
Healthnutt

[healthnutt]

I use Barleans high lignan oil with Safflower 2-1...i had colon cancer and I certainly want to use the best combination to keep this from ever coming back...I value everyone opinion...I use Brian's formula.....If cod liver oil is the best I will change even thou he does not recomend that as the source of omega 3...what do you think??? there are some good tasting Cod Liver oils on the market but have never tried them...
thanks

[pamelaw]

Just keep in mind the quality of fish that cannot be sold for food and is then juiced for fish oils. It's almost always rancid before being bottled.

Also, Cod Liver Oil is associated with miscarriages, which may not be pertinent to your circumstances, but just in case.....

[peppy lepew]

After experiementing with Flaxseed Oil/Hemp Oil and safflower oil, I came to the conclusion that the flax and possibly the hemp oil were giving me headaches. I am going to try the Cod Liver Oil instead, hope it works because the CLO is high in Vitamin D, and I was going to start taking that anyway. The flax oil really gave me a lot of energy, but I couldn't take the headaches anymore. Pamelaw - I don't have to worry about getting pregnant but I will pass that info on!

[Melissa52]

It is so individual, and I truly believe that everyone has to go with the EFA protocol they believe is right for them. I have the utmost respect for Prof. Peskin and his countless hours of research. I also have respect for Paul, the health challenges he has overcome, and the knowledge he has of Essential Fatty Acids. Other people here have also talked about Mary Enig and her research.

Since I have switched to EPO and CLO, I have a greater sense of well-being, I feel calmer, my mind is clearer. I have less anxiety. Also, I went to see my family last weekend, and they all told me how healthy I look. My skin looks much better, and my eyes look brighter, less tired.

[healthnutt]

Hello,
Thanks for the great response. I went on Paul's call last night to listen and it was not but a few on the call..I introduced myself etc. Anyway what he says does not a all conflict with Brian Peskin except that of fish oil (cod liver oil). He said he and Brian had talked before as Paul promotes his book "The Hidden Story Of Cancer" and Brian had asked for some info and he sent it to him..Paul thinks that Brian scares people with the fish oil issue and need not worry about that.. Also Brian has his own formula https://www.healthyforlifeusa.com/ and it has EPO in it, but Paul likes the idea of taking the capsules of Efamol and which I ordered this morning and also order Carlston CLO (liver oil)...I also still plan to take maybe a teaspoon of Barleans Flax oil with the Efamol and Cod Liver Oil...I can certainly relate what you had as I had it to...What do you think? He said to email him and he would call me back today etc...He is very nice to do that but what will he trying to sell me? I have already ordered what he recomends etc. But by him calling me as helping me but what is in it for him. Does he perform this for nothing...That just stuck out in my opinion...
thanks again...

[Tracey]

He does not try to sell anything. He also called me. He is just very enthusiastic about this and loves to give information. There is nothing in it for him as far as I can tell. He is probably a Melaluca distributor since he believes in their product but he did not push that on me. I have been taking his protocol plus maybe 1/2 to 1 tsp of my own oil mixture that Brian had recommended. I don't always take my oil mixture everyday but I do the EPO/CLO. I also feel very calm and my anxiety levels are way down. My hair feels great and I also get comments that I look very healthy.
Brian always stressed to me not to take to much of his oil mixture as not to overdose on Omega 3 but Paul said it was okay to use as a salad dressing or whatever along with his protocol. So, I just play around. Last night was a late night at work and an early morning with dentist and tutoring the kids so I have had very little sleep, so I plan do both protocols for energy.
Tracey

[healthnutt]

He does not try to sell anything. He also called me. He is just very enthusiastic about this and loves to give information. There is nothing in it for him as far as I can tell. He is probably a Melaluca distributor since he believes in their product but he did not push that on me. I have been taking his protocol plus maybe 1/2 to 1 tsp of my own oil mixture that Brian had recommended. I don't always take my oil mixture everyday but I do the EPO/CLO. I also feel very calm and my anxiety levels are way down. My hair feels great and I also get comments that I look very healthy.
Brian always stressed to me not to take to much of his oil mixture as not to overdose on Omega 3 but Paul said it was okay to use as a salad dressing or whatever along with his protocol. So, I just play around. Last night was a late night at work and an early morning with dentist and tutoring the kids so I have had very little sleep, so I plan do both protocols for energy.
Tracey
I use 2-1 mix of the oil....4oz of the omega 6 (Flora Safflower Oil) 2oz of omega 3(barleans high lignan? is that your mix...I as Brian about the mix once and he said 1 tea spoon per 160lbs of body weight...I take about 2 teaspoons...Lately I have been taking 1 tablespoon per day...What woould you suggest if I added the EPO and CLO...Efamol..
would it hurt to take both..

[Tracey]

Here is my mix: I take a jar and mix 3oz of Saff. oil and 3oz of Sunflower oil and 3oz of Flax oil. When just doing that mixture, I was taking 2 tsp. a day, my little ones a 1/2 tsp. a day and my older boys were taking Peskins capsules because they were stubborn. Now, I am taking Beatty's mixture of 3 caps of Efamol EPO and 1 cap. of CLO. I take a tsp. a day of my oil mixture also, because I exercise and work nights. My children are taking 2 caps of Efamol and 1 cap of CLO. I think Beatty's mixture and Peskin's mixture are the same ratios just different Omega 3's. At first when I was just doing Peskin and was not ordering his capsules for the boys, he told me to use the same number of EPO's that I am taking now and 1 capsule of Flax. He just prefers flax over Cod liver oil. As far as EPO, Beatty really likes Efamol because he feels it is the real thing. Now, Peskin does worry about over doing the Omega 3's but Beatty says it is fine to also add the oil mixture I was doing, so I do. You could email or call Beatty and ask him about over doing Omega 3's that way. I just might do that. I love doing this and will always do this and hopefully I will stay healthy. We'll see.
Tracey

[healthnutt]

Did you say you had colon cancer several years ago..or I may have read it somewhere else on the forum...anyway thanks for the help...

[healthnutt]

He was suppose to call me last night but never did...Maybe he will call tonite. I did not see a phone number for him...
thanks
Sid
healthnutt

[Tracey]

No,
I did not have colon cancer. He will call and is pleasant to talk to. If not email him and remind him. I have his number if you want me to email you.

[healthnutt]

He did call me tonite and was a pleasure to talk too and i think..But he really insists on the CLO tho...He incourged me to take the 6-2 to get them in my system..EPO and CLO.
He really not think that flax oil is a good idea...put it on your salad he said...He said after 60 days go back to 3-1 in more in favor of the EPO...He really spoke highly of Brian and people really need to read his book as it goes along with what he talks about...and is right on...So if you don't have his book...please get it if you can...
thanks for all your help...
Sid
Healthnutt

[healthnutt]

Sorry to bother again...do you take the Carlson CLO or the regular fish oil from Carlson..and does it have a bad taste or after taste...1000mg etc...just wondering before I order...where is the best price for carlson...??
thanks
Sid (healthnutt)

[Melissa52]

Hi healthnutt,
I take Carlson's CLO Super 1,000 in the capsules. That way I know one capsule is the correct measurement. I also take 3 a day of Efamol EPO.

I am the one who had colon cancer, about 10 years ago.

I'm glad you had a good conversation with Paul. He is a very giving person. He always says, "Pay it forward!"

[healthnutt]

I have been studying being studying Brian Peskin and Paul Beatty and also what Paul said...I like both ...My gut feeling is to go with Brian's recomendations with the Omega 3...use flax instead of fish or Cod liver oil...I seem to be at a cross roads on this...which one is better...I value both opinions...and respect both....boy, boy...

[Want2BeMiniMe]

.............and it has EPO in it, but Paul likes the idea of taking the capsules of Efamol and which I ordered this morning and also order Carlston CLO (liver oil)...

How did you (or any of you) order the Efamol? I got to the Efamol site from lifesavingfats.com and from the Efamol site I ended up at Emerson Ecologics and in trying to order it wants some sort of access code from your Dr or they want to validate (I think that's what it said) your Dr and you're supposed to put in your Dr's name and number. Is that where you folks ordered from?


I googled Carlson's CLO Super 1000 and VitaCost.com had what seemed to be a great price - $12.71 for 250 gel caps. Is this the right item? http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Super-1000-mg-Cod-Liver-Oil

Thanks,
Sherry

[healthnutt]

This is where I ordered the Efamol http://www.smallflower.com/efamol/evening-primrose-oil-90-capsules-1000-mg.html....it looks like a good site for a lot of things...
also I ordered the super cod liver oil from Swansons as they have the Carlston...It looks like everyone really likes the Cod Liver oil that Paul Beatty likes...So I ordered some also......

[healthnutt]

Just wondering where everyone else ordered their CLO and omega 6 (elamol) at good prices...

[Melissa52]

I got the Efamol at: www.needs.com
CLO: www.iherb.com

[healthnutt]

Usually when I study a subjuct I try to look at all angles and opinions. I do not disrespect anyones opinion as I like to read them all make my on...Anyway here is a link to help us all to educate ourselves on the issue of the oils mainly the the omega 3...as that is where most questions are. I am not questioning the omega 6..That is a give i will always take (efamol) I am still reading it and wanted to post the link here for everyone who is trying to decide which one is better...here it is...
happy studying...and learning...

http://www.omega-3-fish-oil-guide.com/

Thanks.
Healthnutt
Sid

[healthnutt]

Here is a program where Brian Peskin is speaking in Iowa.
Thought I would post the link here if anyone wants to hear and see him talk about
his books and research..
https://www.healthyforlifeusa.com/video.html

[healthnutt]

Brian Peskin's research is bullet proof....comes directly from Science and has never been proven wrong and can't
try if you can...
Sid

[pamelaw]

Brian Peskin's research is bullet proof....comes directly from Science and has never been proven wrong and can't
try if you can...
Sid

I agree; I really investigate carefully to have root in what I do for me and my family; to me it directly relates to my dedication to God as my family is a direct blessing from him, so I take it very seriously and treat it as sacred.

I'm so glad to be past the 'looking' stage on so many areas of what to do for good health as I've done so much of the work already and can now just do what we need to and see the good fruitage.

[healthnutt]

I have written a resource if anyone wants a copy..I will send it by attachment...This is not my research...But some are my thoughts...I think anyone who reads will like it and be shocked by what they will learn. I wrote it to give away...It is based on Brian Peskin and Dr Otto Warburg...It has link to articles, speaking to doctors etc...it 70 pages...
just send me an email and tell me you would like the resource.
sid_aust@msn.com