Osteoporosis?

[Jillmar]

I have just been diagnosed with osteoporosis!:([:0] My doctor said I am 2-4 times more likely to have a fracture than the normal person. He said to increase my Vitamin D. I take calcium now and he said not to increase that, just take Vitamin D. He also said to do weight bearing exercises.

I'm confused! I already T-Tapp! Is there anything else I can do?[V]

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[gr8fisch]

hydroxyapatite is a mineral supplement you might google for info. liquid minerals, homeopathic cell salts & sublinguals may be easier absorbed. it's possible that alfalfa will supply micronutrients. juicing your vegies is important as an adjunct. avoid calcium robbers: high caffeines, meats, etc., the acid/alkaline factor may be indicative of absorption; yoghurt is predigested so it's more easily utilized, almond butter (raw, though i can't find it...if you have a vitamix you can make it) & possibly food sourced vit/min supplements.

keep movin'..the path shows up behind you...

[pww818]

Jill...that's always a shocker isnt it? Did you have a DEXA scan to pinpoint where your problem(s) are? I am -2/7 in my spine, but my hips and non-dominant wrist test out OK.

I have read several books on osteoporosis, lots of good information out there. One of the books I liked was Strong Women, Strong Bones and I can't remember the author. I have also gone to a couple of seminars on Osteoporosis which were very good...much more up to date information than books can give you.

One of the recommendations is a weighted vest. I purchased one thru a company in Oregon (the woman is a researcher in osteoporosis). The brand was WalkVest, but with her company, you got more weights than ordering straight thru the walkvest company. The recommendation is 10% of your body weight in weights. I wore it steadily for about a year, then have rubbed a hole in it from all the weights, and have been lazy about repairing it with iron on stuff and havent worn it in about a year. I had no increase in my bone density, but probably wasnt on it long enough before my DEXA. I read somewhere you needed to be on it for 2 years for anything to show up.

The person in Oregon has a program to build bone density, I got the tapes, but the workout wasn't something I enjoyed. She also recommended jumping straight up, landing flat footed, 3 sets of 10, I think working up to 50. Of course I havent done that!

I am at work, so I can't remember her name or the name of the program. When I get home tonight I will post.

At one of the seminars on Osteoporosis one of the researchers there (from U Wisconsin Madison, I think) suggested jumping off an 18 inch step and landing flat footed. His research documented bone building with that measure.

The idea is to stress the bone to stimulate growth. And yes, both of these people said it was OK to do either exercise with a diagnosis of osteoporosis. They also advocate jumping activities for young women, and said that gymnasts often had better bone density because of the stress cause by their landings.

I doesn't sound like your physician has prescribed one of the bone building medicines yet. I tried the weighted vest, dietary changes and consistent exercise, but still was losing bone, so started on Fosamax 35 mg for a year, still lost bone, so bumped up to 70 this past January. I don't like taking meds, and will continue to do the other things to mitigate bone loss.

Some of the experts recommend dietary changes. Joel Fuhrman in Eat to Live advocates a vegan lifestyle. Most of the books indicate that bone loss occurs with animal protein intake, so I have gone mostly vegetarian. The bone loss occurs because digesting animal protein cause your system to go to the acid side of the equation so your body leaches calcium out of your bones to bring you back to a neutral base. I still do have some animal protein intake, but not much. Of course, you want to stay away from soda as the phosphorus can stimulate bone loss as well.

This is probably WAAAAAY more than you wanted to know...

I will update names and websites tonight when I get home from work!

Pam

editing to add: Gr8fish, thanks for mentioning caffeine. I forgot that...I have been off caf. for about 3 years now. Also causes calcium loss because it is a diuretic.

[Jillmar]

Thanks girls! And yes, it was scarey![:0] I thought I had great bones because I feel strong and in shape!

I don't know what kind of test I had. It was my first one. I layed on the table and a machine above me took pictures of my spine and hips. I have the report and my T and Z scores. But I don't know what they mean!:(



Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[pww818]

Do you have a narrative report (like from the radiologist) or is it pictures/graph? If you can find your T scores, tell me what that is.

The Dexa scan (which is what you had done on the table) scans your hips and your lumbar spine. If they are close to the osteoporosis range, they take a scan of your non dominant wrist. (You probably had to sit sideways beside the machine for that one). It is kind of the *tie-breaker*.

If any of those areas are -2.5 or higher, that gives you a diagnosis of osteoporosis. If you have a colored graph on your report, that will be the dots or squares in the red zone. The next step less bad from that is osteopenia which on the colored graph would be yellow, and the next would be normal which is the green area.

In Strong Women, Strong bones, I think she explains that well.

I remember the first few weeks after I had the diagnosis, I felt so F-R-A-G-I-L-E which I am not!!! You get used to it, but I do pause if I am doing something like lifting a heavy object. I try to use my head because I dont want to end up looking like my Mom or some of the little ladies I see at work (I'm a hospital social worker.).

Pam

[pww818]

The place I got my weighted vest was www.bonesandbalance.com. I can't get the website to come up so don't know if it still exists. It was by Dr. Christine Snow, a researcher at Oregon State University. I have their phone if you want it.

This is the original place that sells the vest I got thru Bones and Balance, I just got 18# of weights and a reduced cost. http://www.walkvest.com/

This website has another vest which was not available when I looked for mine, also has some articles from Dr. Snow's work.
http://www.weightvest4osteoporosis.com/research.htm
This vest is endorsed by Dr. Fuhrman...as the weights are higher on the body than the weight vest. She also indicates you can rebound with the vest on. I've not done that altho I have a rebounder.

The Strong Women Strong Bones author is Miriam E. Nelson, PhD. She also has a website now at: www.strongwomen.com In her book she interprets the DEXA scan results, but after a quick look at her website, I don't see it there. She also says in her book ALWAYS to have your bone scan at the same time of year. Your density waxes and wanes with the seasons based on the amount of sunlight (VIT D) available. Since you now will want to measure the difference on your subsequent bone density scans, you will want to keep to the same time of year (like 1st week of June, etc.)

I do SATI or SITTM with the weighted vest, but didn't like doing the Total with the vest. I didn't feel comfortable wth the bending over moves and the weighted vest. Plies, hoe downs, balance, TTN, step-lift and all the ones where you are upright felt OK.

Uh...I might just have overwhelmed you...Sorry! :D

Pam

[KarenM]

Jill, this is a subject of great interest to me as my mother had severe osteoporosis and suffered quite a bit because of it. I've had improved bone density on my last 2 DEXA scans. I credit a combination of t-tapp, cal/mag supplementation, and low dose estrogen replacement therapy. The ERT is something you might want to discuss with your doctor. Here's a link to info about a low dose estrogen patch designed specifically to protect the bones: http://www.menostar-us.com/index.html

Good luck!

[Jillmar]

Thanks for all the great information!:D I do take a cal/mag supplement now but I might try to add a Vit. D supplement.

Karen, I don't want to take ERT because my mom had breast cancer twice, my aunts and grandmother died of breast cancer and I had a scare myself. So that's out of the question, but I appreciate your feedback!;):)[:X]

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[VeggieGirl]

In the Strong Women, Strong Bones book, she does recommend increasing Vitamin D intake because calcium needs that to absorb it. She also recommends jumping (& jump rope). I just got her book out of the library today and started to read it. Very interesting!

Jean from NJ

[Lori French]

I Googled for info on the "Strong Women, Strong Bones" book and found that it is dated 2001. Medical recommendations change daily wondering if it *feels* dated from other info out there. Maybe I'll look into the library option.....

[u]Lori</u>

[ChattyKathy]

I also have been diagnosed with osteoporosis. I supposedly had the hips of a 65 y o lady when I was only 50. A few years ago I bought a rebounder. I jumped, walked in place or exercised every day religiously on the rebounder. I had it in front of the TV and would just do something on it while I watched TV at night. I basically worked out on it for 1 hour/day. I would do my 10,000 steps on the rebounder. The next year that I had my bone density test I had a statically significant improvement on my test. My ob/gyn even sent me a congrats letter. So I hightly recommend a rebounder. T even mentions it in her "Total Workout Gameplan for optimal results" brochure. Look under "Off Day Workouts": "For even faster results try doing the 15-minute Bssic Plus before your walk or rebound session." Thus, I presume that she also likes rebounders. I also have been curious how to incorporate the rebounder with TTapp. For instance how do you apply the TTapp work out to a rebounde?? Hope this helps. I should mention that I had no weight reduction or cloth size reduction on the rebounder and that is what I am looking for with TTAPP. Kathy (tried to use bold and different fonts but was not successful) I also use my weight vest but I bought that after my improved bone density test.

[Andrea-in-France]

Jill, this was your first bone scan, right? I was thinking that with all the T-Tapp you're doing (which IS weight bearing without weights) your condition might actually be on the improving side - who knows. You might have been having osteoporosis for several years already. Maybe have another bone scan in 6 months or so? Just a thought!

Good luck to you!

Andrea
Trainer in Training, France
Tappin' happily since 2003

[CharityM]

Jill,

Like Andrea, I wonder if your bone density has been increasing since you started doing T-Tapp. My bone density continues to improve and I don't take calcium (my body doesn't seem to absorb it), I don't take vit. D (not absorbing), don't take any meds BUT I have been T-Tapping on and off since my diagnosis. I also sleep on a magnetic mattress which might help. Unfortunately, I don't have another mattress but I believe T-Tapp is key. The technician is always surprised about what I don't take with the improvements showing up.

I am not recommending you that anyone not take cal/mag supplements. My holistic practitioner and I are tring to get my digestive system in order so that I will absorb more nutrients.

Charity

[Jillmar]

Yes, this was my first bone scan. So I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I would have had worse results if I hadn't been Tapping. Actually, I've been doing a little research and I don't think its as bad as my doctor made it sound. He is just over-protective and wants me to watch it.:) My scores do not indicate osteoporosis but they do indicate osteopenia. So now that I know, I can really work on improving my density.

I will continue to take the calcium and Vit D. And maybe start jumping up and down!;):D

Thanks for all your suggestions! I really appreciate it!

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[myCelia]

Jill,

This past weekend I noticed that my mom seemed shorter to me so I've been doing some research. And yes, estrogen is apparently not all it's cracked up to be. Have you looked into progesterone? It's definitely a factor in bone formation among other things. Here are a couple of articles you may be interested in:

Estrogen and Osteoporosis (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/estrogen-osteoporosis.shtml) (I'm devouring ALL his articles)

and

Osteoporosis Reversal (http://www.naturodoc.com/library/hormones/osteo_rev.htm)

As an aside, I started my research with this informative thread on estrogen dominance (http://www.naturodoc.com/library/hormones/osteo_rev.htm) issues. This forum really IS such a wealth of information. Hope that helps.

myCelia :)

And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anais Nin

[Jillmar]

Very interesting! So, do you think it may be helpful for me to try progesterone cream?

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[myCelia]

Yes, I would try it. In fact, I'll be supplementing with it soon (just ordered the Adrenal and Thyroid Support for Women from hormoneprofile.com) for my bone health and a myriad of other hormonal imbalance symptoms I'm experiencing. I'm also going to encourage my mom to begin supplementing with progesterone and to get off the ERT ASAP!

myCelia :)

And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anais Nin

[pww818]

Jill, that's great that it is osteopenia not into the osteoporosis range. I wondered if it was osteopenia since he didn't suggest medication.

In the Strong Women book she also gives a neat chart on sunlight availability for making Vit D based on longitude in the US.

At the osteoporosis seminar I went to 2 years ago, the researchers indicated they may increase the RDA for Vit. D, but didnt know what it would be. There is also a danger of TOO much Vit D, which can cause problems as well.

Good point about the T-Tapp maybe having increased your bone density...it will be interesting to see what your next scan shows in a couple of years.

Pam

Pam

[KarenM]

myCelia, those look like interesting articles. I just skimmed over them but will go back and read again. I've certainly had good success improving my bone density with low dose ERT. I've used progesterone off and on, but I usually feel better off it than on! Interesting that you purchased the adrenal and thyroid support from hormoneprofile.com - I was just looking at that this morning! Keep us posted on your results?

[Jillmar]

How much is too much Vit D? Do you have any articles on that study?

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[RoseTapper]

Jill,

Woman's World magazine this week suggests taking boron, which helps move calcium into the bones.

Also, if you haven't yet been tested for gluten intolerance/Celiac, you might ask your doctor to run that particular blood test. Osteoporosis is a common result of gluten intolerance, and if you have it, it will not improve without changing your diet (eliminating gluten completely). This is convinced my mother to finally change to a gluten-free diet--even though she is large boned, was a professional athlete, and still works out regularly, her bones are 70% decalcified. She is hoping to improvement her condition through diet.

Please have the test--you won't be sorry.

Laura H. (RoseTapper)

[suz1947]

KarenM, like you, I’ve had improved density scores with essentially the same combination that you have been doing … T-Tapp, cal-mag supplementation and a low dose patch. I’ve never heard of the Menostar patch, but the company Berle is ringing a bell in my head. I seem to think that it also produces the Climara patch, which I’m on. I’ll have to look into the Menostar patch. Are you post menopausal? The reason I ask is that you’re not using progesterone. My mother also has severe osteoporosis and it took me years to convince my PCP to let me get the DEXA scan. Then she apologized when the results came back.

Suzanne

[Mackie2004]

Jill,
I had a bone scan in 2002 for a base reading, and then another in 2004. I was under the impression that in order to tell if I was loosing bone density there had to be something to compare the readings with. Thus the first scan. Which makes sense, because how would they be able to tell if there were any changes. Anyway, because of my build, tall and thin, she put me on 70 mg of Fosamax once a week. I've been taking it weekly. Now there are concerns about the medication causing jaw problems. So what to do??? Why borrow more trouble? I've made the decision to stop taking it and will rely on my T-Tapp and calcium/D.

I sometimes wonder if the medical profession isn't to quick to push the drugs for which I can only guess the reasons why.

Did your Doctor say anything to you about taking Fosamax or something similar? I'm really surprised if he didn't.

Kathy

[KarenM]

Suzanne, good for you for persisting about the DEXA scan. I know that I wasn't taking no for an answer! It was quite a scare to see "osteopenia" on that first report. However, the improvement on the subsequent 2 scans was very encouraging. In fact, my doctor told me to keep on doing whatever I was doing! Berlex does indeed make both Climara and Menostar. I'm fairly certain that Menostar is the lowest dose estrogen patch available. It's not a high enough dosage to control any other menopausal symptoms but apparently is just enough to help protect the bones. At any rate, I'm actually going to follow my doctor's orders for a change and keep on doing what I'm doing. I hope you have continued success, and best wishes to your mother.

Interesting about the Fosamax causing jaw problems. I wasn't aware of that. Isn't it also notorious for causing gastrointestinal problems? Seems like a good thing to stay away from if at all possible.

Jill, you've certainly gotten some food for thought on this thread. :)

[Jillmar]

My doctor said to increase my Vit. D and said if my next scan shows a decrease in density he would put me on meds. But he said right now, since I only have osteopenia, he didn't want to do that. I am hoping my next scan will show an increase in desnity! It will be interesting to see what changes take place!

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[pww818]

Jill, I don't have studies on too much Vit D. However I work in a hospital and we had a patient who was very ill...discovered she had been taking a lot of Vit D, it seems like it was in the 2000 range (now cant remember if Vit D is measured in IU or mg). The researchers at the seminar both thought it would be raised to around 1200 (I think the RDA now is about 400 which they thought was way too low. I will do some checking this weekend and see if I can come up with anything.

Pam

[Jillmar]

Pam, I just ordered some Vit D that is 1000 (either mg or iu) so I hope that's not too much.

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[pww818]

No, I think it is OK as long as you are not getting a bunch of Vit D from other sources (fortified milk, etc). I will check this weekend and see if I can find my notes from the seminar where they were talking about it. Does your calcium supplement have Vit D as well?...and if you take a multivit, you need to look at how much there as well.

Pam

[Jillmar]

Pam, I just looked at my vitamins. My Cal/Mag has 400 IU's and my multi-vit has 800 IU's. I wonder if I should even take any more![:0]

See what you can find out for me. I don't want to over do it. But I wonder why I have osteopenia if I take that much Vit. D!

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[pww818]

I would definitely NOT take any more than that. Did your DR do any lab work to show you were VIT D deficient? If not, I would call the office and talk with his nurse. Tell her what he recommended and have her tell him how much you are already taking.

I got sidetracked this weekend and didnt get to dig thru my notes. I will do that this afternoon.

Pam

[Jillmar]

Thanks Pam! Will do!

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com

[pww818]

Jill, I found this:

Toxicity

Vitamin D toxicity (hypervitaminosis D) induces abnormally high serum calcium levels (hypercalcemia), which could result in bone loss, kidney stones, and calcification of organs like the heart and kidneys if untreated over a long period of time. When the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine established the tolerable upper intake level (UL) for vitamin D, published studies that adequately documented the lowest intake levels of vitamin D that induced hypercalcemia were very limited. Because the consequences of hypercalcemia are severe, the Food and Nutrition Board established a very conservative UL of 2,000 IU/day (50 mcg/day) for children and adults (see table below) (28). Research published since 1997 suggests that the UL for adults is likely overly conservative and that vitamin D toxicity is very unlikely in healthy people at intake levels lower than 10,000 IU/day (36, 76, 77). Vitamin D toxicity has not been observed to result from sun exposure. Certain medical conditions can increase the risk of hypercalcemia in response to vitamin D, including primary hyperparathyroidism, sarcoidosis, tuberculosis, and lymphoma (36). People with these conditions may develop hypercalcemia in response to any increase in vitamin D nutrition and should consult a qualified health care provider regarding any increase in vitamin D intake.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminD/

Some of the online sites I am not sure of , at least this is Oregon State Univ, so would expect them to be pretty accurate. I would probably not go over the 2000 per day level.

Pam
editing to add I just was vitamin shopping on Dr. Fuhrman's Eat to Live site and noticed he has a new calcium/VitD supp. He also recommends in the 1200 range, not to exceed 2000.

[Jillmar]

Thanks. That's interesting. Here again, less is more!;)[:p][}:)]

Jill Brightbill
T-Tapp Trainer
IFPA Certified Personal Trainer
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
http://www.t-tapp.com/trainers/jillbrightbill/
jillb@T-Tapp.com